Yes, good posts. The "two R's" had some great thoughts there AW. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Very nice thoughts from all. I appreciate the well thought out answers. Critical Thinking at its best.
Yes, good posts. The "two R's" had some great thoughts there AW. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
I think it's a natural progression. We have to spend time on technique to able to produce the sound we want. Eventually that becomes second nature and then we play music.
This is one of the only instruments where in the beginning, you mostly play on a pad. That's wierd.
To each their own we cannot put what WE think is musical in a nice neat box and say this is how one has to play or it is not the right way. The fact is guy's choose what is important to them. If guy's want to continue to push boundaries technically and creatively more power to them I do not find it to be unmusical just a different expression of music. If one wants to just hang back and play it more straight forward Great also, neither are wrong. The fact is there are a few guy's who actually did ALOT more straight forward SO called groove oriented stuff in their younger years and the older they got their insatiable curiousity grew inside of them and they felt driven to explore more on the technical and creative side as they got older, I do not fine them to be wrong for their choice of expression.
Dig
I don't think these guys have stopped pushing themselves technically. Actually, as far as technique goes, I think they are much better than they've ever been and execute at an extremely high level. They just have decided to use this amazing technique in different ways now. They might use it to adjust their touch and sensitivity on the instrument as opposed to blowing 32nd notes all over the place. To reiterate what others have said, it is all part of the maturation process. And by the way, Jeff had some amazing chops. Listen to some of the earlier stuff he played on(the live Sonny & Cher in Vegas). Joe Porcaro even has said that Jeff was scary when he was real young. He was a great example of a guy who used his chops to sculpt the feel and the groove.
Hey D.Seipel.....
Not having read the article in which you refer, I think I've interpreted two different theories here.
When you say that "Vinnie has settled down". I would agree with this. For more than one reason. I can remember a comment made by a keyboard player with Robin Ford at the time telling Vinnie to tone it down with all the chops. My guessing......... this was part of the learning curve that Vince has delt with. Give the music what it requires, and not too much more (of course it's a little different blowing with Karizma).
But I would say that if anything, Vince and Weckl have become much MORE "technical" over the years. But it's just applied in such a smoother way. Grooving is something that is totally nesscessary within a tune, but I've never seen Dave "groove" while at the same time just slaughtering the drums as I do nowadays. And he's all the more relaxed doing it now too.
Same with Vince too!! He's more of a monster nowadays when he blows over bars of music all the while making it look easier than it was 20 years ago for him!!! [img]eek.gif[/img]
I dunno.... some guys just seem to keep re-inventing themselves. I'm sure I'm leaving out a whole slew of other players that this has happened to also. Oh yeah!! Steve Smith is another perfect example of this.
Good thread man [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
As for Dave and Vinnie I think as other's have said their technique is actually better it is more refined, they are smoother, more fluid especially Dave. Their feel is more established but conceptually or even chop's wise I do not think they are really pushing new boundaries. For one example polyrhythmically they are not really doing anything that is staggering or fresh but that is O.K. because obviously it does not matter to them. There will always be others who come along pushing the boundaries it has always happened and will but these guy's are still at THE TOP of their game and the drumming world and have just gotten better with time IMO.
Dig
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um, I dn't know about that, but if you were to talk about at least one other in relation...For one example polyrhythmically they are not really doing anything that is staggering or fresh but that is O.K. because obviously it does not matter to them.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...you wouldn't happen to be talking about someone with the initils "V.D.," would you?! [img]wink.gif[/img]There will always be others who come along pushing the boundaries it has always happened and will but these guy's are still at THE TOP of their game and the drumming world and have just gotten better with time IMO.
Check Zappa's SUNPYG, & then check the intro to say the "5 Storks" tune that much later...slick, clever, & still yet very musical. [img]cool.gif[/img] [But, no insane DB modulating poly-r grooves! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ]...
I find that Weckls playing has (if possible) gone on to be even more smoothly executed.
His (stick) technique has changed rather drastically over the years, but if you watch the TUDW DVD and the Drummers Collective DVD, he is -playingwise- in as good a shape as ever!
After seeing Vinnie on that Sting / Japanes show, I will have to think that around that time - ca 10 years ago- is where Vinnie -to me!- was most on fire, technically and musically. I've seen him not long ago, and he still is "the best"-meaning, he still is so f...... unique, and his style and persona is so clear and artistically rounded, that to me it is almost not worth mentioning.
Gotta love 'em both for keeping the fire going!
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